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Two Coaches & a Coffee
With nearly 60 years of professional experience between them across the world in Premier League, International Rugby, AFL and consulting in a plethora of other sports and industries; two old bulls of the performance, injury prevention, and rehabilitation world: Darren Burgess and Jason Weber catch up over a brew and discuss all things Sports Performance.
Two Coaches & a Coffee
Season 3, Episode 8
Drop us a message and let us know what you'd like us to discuss!
After an unplanned hiatus, Burgo and Jase Weber dive straight into one of the most practical yet rarely discussed topics in sports performance: contract negotiations for strength and conditioning coaches. Drawing from decades of combined experience across multiple elite sporting environments worldwide, they unpack the essential elements that should be considered when putting pen to paper.<br><br>The conversation provides a masterclass in understanding exit clauses, intellectual property protections, and creative compensation packages beyond base salary. They share candid stories about their own negotiation experiences, from accepting baseline entry positions to crafting complex arrangements that protected their entrepreneurial interests. The practical advice spans career stages - from desperate first-jobbers willing to work weekends without question to seasoned professionals who can command specific terms. Beyond contracts, the duo explores the delicate science of tendon injury rehabilitation, cautioning against the common trap of returning athletes too quickly when strength measures look promising but elastic components remain compromised. Their insights from working with elite and Paralympic athletes highlight how the human body finds alternative movement strategies that can mask underlying issues. What makes this episode particularly valuable is its blend of tactical career advice and scientific rehabilitation insights, delivered with the casual authenticity of two veterans sharing hard-earned wisdom. Whether you're negotiating your first industry position or looking to better structure your next career move, this conversation provides a framework for thinking beyond base salary to create arrangements that truly serve your professional development.<br><br>Have you negotiated creative elements into your coaching contracts? We'd love to hear your experiences and what you wish you'd known earlier in your career path!
SpeedSig Intro
Sponsored by SPEEDSIG.com
All right, welcome to Coaching in a Coffee. Joe, and Jase Webber here with you after a break that neither of us wanted to have, but just the way life got in front of us.
Speaker 2:How are you doing? Going okay, since we've been off air, we've had two losses at the LA. Crows, so I messaged you urgently and said we need to get back on track, jase, we need to start recording.
Speaker 1:We need to debrief.
Speaker 2:Yes, we do.
Speaker 1:Well, it's funny, mate. I remember very early in my career, for a stupid period no matter how logical I consider myself I had a lucky pair of shorts. I used to have to wear the game. So, yeah, we all have. That didn't work, mind you. I got rid of that very quickly. But yeah, there's no, you never know A little bit of magic. Somewhere you go to baseball, mate. You know the old Bull Durham.
Speaker 2:You've got to respect the streak Exactly. A little bit of magic doesn't hurt anybody, but we had. We had a game, 33 degrees. The afl, in its wisdom, scheduled us to play at midday on the gold coast in march, which I guess.
Speaker 2:No, it was april which then we played the following thursday night. But you know, that's, that's. That's been and gone. But what did happen is afl had a thing every year called Gather Round, which is where every single team plays in Adelaide. So imagine for the overseas listeners if every Premier League team played in Manchester for the weekend. So it was quite a big deal.
Speaker 2:Adelaide's a small enough town to make it a big deal if it was in Sydney or Melbourne. Basically, every weekend in Melbourne is Gather, gather round anyway, isn't it? Because there's about eight games that go on there.
Speaker 1:There's so many going on yeah.
Speaker 2:So what it did is? It gave us an opportunity for all the high performance managers, fitness coaches, strength and conditioning coaches to try and get together, at least those who travel with the team. So we got together on Saturday morning at 7am in typical fitness coach sort of tradition at a coffee shop.
Speaker 1:Up and out of fashion 7am coffee shop.
Speaker 2:We had a guest speaker in, laura Mimosley, which was great Basically just interviewed him on stage. Not that there was a stage, it was a coffee shop, but one of the things that sort of came from that, and there was probably about 50-odd people there I think 55 or something like that, so it was a good turnout. One of the things that came from it is people want advice and yeah, let's just say advice on contracts, on what should be included in contracts for people in our industry. So I thought, completely without notice, that might be a good way to start. There was a few other things that they mentioned. You know that they were interested in, but we did a quick whip around and a quick survey. What are some of the things that ought to be in? Let's start with a strength and conditioning coaches contract. I'll tell you what shouldn't be in there. Jason, I'm going to answer my question first. We interviewed for about four positions in October last year, which I think I mentioned on a previous podcast and one of the interviews who was really good on paper.
Speaker 2:Do you have any questions for us? Was what I asked and he said yeah, do I have to work weekends? I just went okay, so that should be in a contract and should be made very clear. Yeah, very clear that flexible working hours which everybody sees on a contract and says, yeah, that's okay, I can handle that. You know, the odd hour after five o'clock, Anyway, what are some of the things that, as if a young strength and conditioning coach is negotiating his or her contract, what ought to be in there?
Speaker 1:I think one thing you should always look at is like you can get a contract. Let's say you get a contract for, like, a first up contract might be two years, it might be three years if you're lucky. I check the exit clause, but what are the conditions under which the employer can spontaneously, you know, dissolve the contract? You would like, most of these days, a minimum of a month's notice. Certainly you would want no less than that, like one month. Can you imagine that?
Speaker 1:So a guy comes in, a boss comes in the door and says it's done, we've made the position redundant, right, your position is no longer in existence, so so you got one month and you're out, which also then leads to one of your other things we talked about really quickly before, which is networking. But I would always seek to try and get that a little bit longer and remember there are conditions under which a good exit cause or a short exit cause may suit you. So, as you're moving up the chain, you may not want not that you ever get super long ones, but let's say it was six months, but you'd have to say then well, what if another job offer came up and you wanted to move and the team weren't real cool and it was going to be six months. The other team might lose.
Speaker 2:So I think understanding your exit clause is always really important, and how it pertains to where you're at super, yeah, I think I think the other point, just just to jump in there, um, the one month exit clause. You've got to think of these things. What does it mean in practical terms? So in practical terms, conversation happens, you get let go, for whatever reason, you will be paid out one month. So that's if that happens. If on the other side of the coin, you think no, no, no, I'm going to negotiate hard, I want more than one month, I want six months, that's great. If they sack you, you will get six months' pay. If you want to leave, to go and get a better position, they also have the right to retain you for six months. And some clubs and bosses and owners will do that and do enforce that. So just sorry to interrupt there, but just to understand that that's what that is, no, no that's a really good point.
Speaker 2:What you might include and what you can include is six months, unless alternate agreeable terms can be negotiated to both parties, and most of the time that's okay. For example, in the Premier League, the contracts that I've had over there have been a one year, but I've always had a catch-all phrase at the end of it because, basically, if the club sack you, they're not going to want to pay you for a year. If they sack sack you, they're not going to want to pay you for a year. If they sack you, I'm not going to want to. If I leave, I'm not going to want to be held there for a year. So you can generally negotiate that. So you need to have that catch-all phrase in there.
Speaker 1:From a story perspective. I know a guy who was working in pro rugby in France and got terminated and he had a year on his contract. So he was like, yeah, I'm going to get paid out a year. And the owner said, no, in fact, what you're going to do is sit still for a year. I don't want you to come to work, but we're going to pay you once a fortnight or once a month or whatever it is for the next year. So he could have taken paid holiday for a year, but that was his career for a year stopped. So he ended up having to walk away because there was no other negotiation element.
Speaker 1:So I reckon that combination right there that you mentioned, that manipulating the exit, is understanding the exit. The other one that's worth having in there is big sneeze. Excuse me, that really snuck up on me. It's changed. My train of thought Is negotiation. So even if it's a month having it in there, that if another job of a higher level came up, that you can work with the club to get out, because I think the club being of an understanding that when bigger opportunities come up, you're going to need to operate, you're going to need to move on those. So I think, having that general understanding, which does come back to a principle that is worth trying to follow, which is trying to be honest, trying to be honest with your employer to get the contract fair and equitable, but making sure you protect your rights.
Speaker 1:The other one that I always have for a long time kept a very close eye on is IP intellectual property. So most employers will say whatever intellectual property is developed here is the property of the club. Now I can tell you from a speed sync perspective if I'd have done that, if I'd have had that signed in my contract, I wouldn't have been able to start a business. So I made it very clear. I got to a certain point, I renegotiated a contract and I said like, okay, everything that we're working on with the team per se, but I'm going off on another tangent. I'm doing these other things in my own time, in my own study. They are sacrosanct, they are mine, they are no one else's. I had that signed into my contract so that when, like if the possibility came up that there was an opportunity, I was able to execute on that, which I've been able to do.
Speaker 2:So that's another one to think about. Depending on where you're placed. The temptation is, let's say, adelaide Crows, young strength coach, first job in the industry. They're just going to sign anything that's put in front of you. You may not need that clause, that IP clause or that external consultation Like. I have an external consultation clause currently in the contract so that means that I can do the Fief Pro stuff, western United and whatever else without having to. But as a young strength and conditioning coach I never had that clause in there and it's understandable that the Adelaide Crows might not want that clause in a young strength coach. They want that young strength coach. They want her to concentrate solely on her job with the AFL. So I understand that. What about? So? We've covered exit clauses, we've covered external contracts In terms of salary, just with understand that. What about? So? We've covered exit clauses, we've covered external contracts In terms of salary-.
Speaker 1:Just with the external contracts, mate. Just before we finish, just sorry to butt in on you but just be mindful this is an early growth thing.
Speaker 1:If it's your first contract, yeah, you're not going to have much wiggle room. But as people go along, I've got people all the time asking me questions. I've got mentorship clients that I'm working with and they're in their let's say early 30s. So they've had a couple of jobs and they're on their way up the chain. I think at that point you should be considering all of these elements. So, yeah, just put it in your back pocket. I think it's something nobody discusses. So, yeah, put those in your back pocket. I think it's something nobody discusses. So, yeah, put those in your back pocket. Sorry about that.
Speaker 2:No salary stuff. I don't think it's appropriate for us to talk about that here. But what I will say is one of the frustrating things with coming up through the industry was when people wouldn't tell you their salary. So you know and it can be a personal thing, I get that but I've always you and I, for example, whenever we've negotiated contracts have been the first call each other have made and said right, what are you on, what am I on? How can we?
Speaker 2:It's only going to improve the industry because I can assure you let's talk AFL but this is same in NBA, nfl, premier League the person who's sitting on the other side of the desk knows exactly what the industry standard is. They know what Liverpool, arsenal, manchester City, manchester United are paying versus Sheffield United, respectfully, or Wrexham, or whoever else. They know what Collingwood versus what St Kilda are paying. They know all of these things. The more we can share and be honest as an industry, the more it's going to help this industry, and that's something that the AFL High Performance Association is actively doing at the moment is trying to get along with. People like ASCA are trying to get minimum salary bands for different positions. So, whilst we're not going to sit here and say a first year strength coach should earn X and a first year sports scientist. I think the more open we can be within our industry, the better it'll serve us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree and I also so on that I was going to flick really quickly. Your networking will come back to that. But I think the value in understanding and having people in the industry that you speak to regularly is that camaraderie, to be able to say, hey mate, what do you think? This is what's on the table and I don't think, from a networking perspective, you can go past that. I've had a few of these conversations recently. But having a strong network of a handful of people that can reference and say, hey, mate, what do you think? I think that's super important. I do think if we're just talking finance for a second, particularly that first contract, finance for a second, particularly that first contract, I'm not trying to rip anybody off at all, but what I would say is that that first job is probably not unlike anything else you purchase in life, like what's the value of a car, what's the value of a house? It's what you're willing to pay for. So what am I willing? What my first job? What was I willing to do? I was willing to do anything, so give me the job.
Speaker 1:When I first went to the Queensland Reds in the late 90s, I went for almost nothing. I was, you know we're on nothing. And I went up there as a nobody and I proved myself. And then the next year when I got another contract, whatever it was 12, 18 months later, waratahs came and said hey, we'll offer you more, come back. And all of a sudden Queensland Reds said well, actually, you're important, we'll offer you quite a bit like a lot more. It doubled easily because I was on two times. Nothings only, just nothing anyway.
Speaker 1:But I think in that first job, like it's not unusual to say, well, if they're not offering much, just get in. And I'm not saying, I'm not advocating for paying early career people, nothing. What I'm saying is that goes with the weekend thing, you've got to be. There's an element of you've got to get in the door. There's got to be a desperation. But I'm very privileged with the SpeedSig thing to meet a lot of young coaches around the world and that attitude's still there. Can do, just get it done, I'm in. And that then softens as you go further up the chain. You don't have to be as desperate, you can pick, but you've got to get in and get some experience. And that is the hardest part, without question these days, I think getting harder. You know there's more teams and all that, but I think there's a lot of people trying to get in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't want to be old man on the porch saying you young folks, so I won't but develop resilience. It'll help you take a job for less than what. You had a conversation with a guy not so long ago who turned down a job over $4,000 and now, a year and a half later, massively regrets that decision. And you're just like it's $4,000.
Speaker 1:His view at the time was yeah it's only $4,000.
Speaker 2:Surely they can pay. You've answered your question. It's only $4,000. They probably can pay, but they'll find somebody to do it, 10 grand less, anyway. I agree with you 100%. What else in the contract to try and keep us on task? What are some of the things that you might include or you might suggest when you're negotiating, in lieu of salary, that you might be able to put on the table to say, okay, I understand, you might only have $100,000, $50,000, but what about A, b and C?
Speaker 1:I'll go with the study one. I've used that a couple of times Good Excellent.
Speaker 1:Don't give me the okay, I won't take the cash in terms of a payment, but for everybody who's got a hex debt in the world, I got hex debt paid by a contract. So I had that in my. I had an education component because from a tax perspective, the club can write it off differently, because from a tax perspective, the club can write it off differently. And so I left. I finished a contract. And this is one where I finished a contract early because I had a bigger job offer and that was all negotiated and good. I just said, right, hey, I'm going to give you notice, I'll work through it. And it was actually like a. It was like nearly a six-month lead out. So I gave notice and said, hey, I'll run this out for six months. But in that there was an education component and I got that education component paid off my HECS debt.
Speaker 2:Excellent.
Speaker 1:And because that was I just said hey, it's ongoing education. But you're going to put it on HECS and that got done. Yeah, that got me me out of HEX very early in my career.
Speaker 2:The versions of that would be CPD courses, those sorts of things. Go into that negotiation armed with. I want to be ASCA level three by the time I leave. I want to be ESSA high performance qualified. I want to do a master's of high performance sport. This is how much it costs. I want 110 grand, you want $110,000. You want $90,000. Let's meet in the middle $100,000, but you pay for this $10,000 course and I think that shows initiative and it's a good way of doing it.
Speaker 2:So there's the education component. What about things like flights, things like apparel? Those things are all on the table, depending on you know your level and the club you're going to, because, again, as you said, from a club point of view, they can write those off a lot more easily than what they can. 10 grand in your pocket In wages yeah. So those are options. Have a look. Most clubs are only too happy to tell you who they're sponsored by and so go through their sponsorship on the website and say can we do? You know, I've done house renovations, things like that, and this is that you know later on in my career not in the early part of the career plumbing, anything like that I've done. And uh, yeah, it's, it's um some of those start.
Speaker 1:I don't know how they like. I agree with that one. I'm not sure how they continue. I'm actually I mean, I'm on a government contract now, so I don't. There's none of that available.
Speaker 2:You've got about a 98% super hose, so you're fine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but 98% are not much. There's not much dude, and I think there's a reasonable point. It's not a bad thing. Like, yeah, I have a government job, so I have alluded to this before. So just for clarity, because I'm not trying to play ducks and drakes, I'm now the lead S&C coach at the West Australian Institute of Sport. Now why am I doing that? Because that suits where my life's at. It's a different job. So from where I've been in the past, a lot of people would consider, hey, it's a lesser job. It is very much so from an income perspective. But technically, the people I'm working with and we can go into that later the people professionals and athletes I'm working with at Olympic level and that type of thing. But what I'm saying in all of that is is understand that there are times in your career when there are certain moves that you're going to make that are not always what people perceive. Like people go, oh, why I got this all the time when I first got the waste job. Like, why are you doing that? Like, well, I'm doing it because it suits what I do.
Speaker 1:I'm very clear on my speed seeking business and again, just to share that, I suppose I negotiated that in. I said I'm coming to do this job. I agree, but this is the conditions under which I'll do it. So I've taken less money, so to speak, compared to what I would have gotten the AFL and I had an AFL job offered to me end of last year significantly well, way more than double. So there you go. But it's allowed me to do speed sig, which is my number one thing and I'm sorry employer, I'm sorry WA government Speed sig is my thing. So it's manipulating not manipulating, but managing your contract so that it fits what you're trying to do.
Speaker 2:It's your circumstances as well, which is completely I'm quite certain I wouldn't be in Adelaide if it wasn't for my kids. So I'd still probably be in Melbourne or you manage it where you can.
Speaker 1:But a lot of this stuff just for the young pups listening and I'll be. I am the old man on the porch is you can't go in on your first contract going, hey, I want this Like, add a few things. But as your seniority goes up and again, think of it like a house. A house is only as valuable as someone's willing to put the money down for it. If someone wants you to come and work and it's really important to them that they have you, they will accommodate, they will change rules. They will say hey, like I said with Waste, I'm doing my business, that's what I'm doing. You will acknowledge that that's happening. We commit to certain hours and all the rest of it, but I'm in the commercial space, that's what I'm doing. Okay, good job.
Speaker 2:I guess that's the final thing that you should negotiate, which we're trying to, I guess, provide a bit of a service here and a free service to anybody who's listening. If it is that the club says no, because of soft cap or because of whatever else, we are not going to pay for a salary.
Speaker 2:If you need to relocate, then obviously you put that in. But if it is that, then here's what you do. You say, okay, I'll accept this job, this entry-level job, for 50 grand. I will accept that. But after one year I want to renegotiate the salary for over and above the CPI. So the club will have to pay you the 3% or whatever the 3% is but I want to sit at this table and then you back yourself in, which is 1,000% my first three jobs in the industry.
Speaker 2:I accepted whatever they put in front of me and then said I'll see you this time next year and I want the conversation to be different and back yourself in, or you put incremental increases, if you can do that, but come back and negotiate. So there's some uncertainty on that, no doubt, and you've got to back yourself in, but I wouldn't be signing a three-year deal at $50,000. I would say, yeah, I'll sign for three years, but we're only going to agree on this salary for the first year, and then I want to negotiate for a minimum of CPI for the second and third year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, 100%, mate. I will make a quick mention of one I started using, which is what I call a boomerang clause, which when you have to move, you have to move from. I've moved from Sydney to Brisbane, from Sydney to WA. I had in the contract so, yes, you will pay for me to move and my family, I think when I came to Perth. I think for two contracts. You have to put me back where you got me from. So if this contract finishes.
Speaker 1:if this finishes for any reason, it gets terminated or it just runs its course. Right, you need to pay to relocate me back. Yes, because that's only fair and I had that free man who were very good. My contract with Steve Rossich was the man down there now doing great work with a company in Melbourne called Brainite Very, very interesting stuff. Keep your eye on that, literally. But Steve was very good in that. For my first couple of contracts, that boomerang clause remained because I was never sure would we go back to Sydney and as it stands it's now whatever. 17 years I'm in WA and not going anywhere.
Speaker 2:Yeah, nice, that's a good point. Fighting to stay here yeah, good point. The boomerang calls is a really, really important one. That I didn't put in my first contract and I paid for the total relocation back from Adelaide to Sydney. Yeah it's a really good point. Thus ends the lesson on contract negotiating, so I'm looking forward to when I next have to advertise for positions, for people to come and use these against me which I encourage and welcome.
Speaker 1:Yes, I welcome it. Line up and throw darts at you. That's what they're going to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good stuff, we got anything else before we shut off. On our return, we got a short one on our return.
Speaker 1:Let's very, very quickly. I think you mentioned just in your AFL thing that what are the professional development things people are looking at. I think we'll go into this in heaps of detail, but it did get me straight away when you talked about tendon injuries versus just straight soft tissue like just muscular mid-belly ruptures. Really think this is an area that we all need to be better at. On the weekend in Australia this past weekend we had the Australian Track and Field Championships here and I had the fortune to catch up with a good mate of mine from Melbourne, adam Larkin, who's coached international track and field for and consorts to international NFL players and all kinds, isn't he?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolute star.
Speaker 1:He's probably done 20 years in track and field but he's working. He works with Canadian Athletics now but anyway, and consulting in the NFL. But we've again, he's part of my personal network, as is Darren that I've known for a long time and we always catch up. Anyway, that aside, we had a dinner and a couple of beers on Saturday night and just talked through a lot of technical stuff around tendons, around mobility in the foot, the ankle, how that relates to then intramuscular tears, intramuscular tendon tears and then the rehabilitation of that. Now, the intramuscular tendon stuff is super challenging, as you will know, because it's a thing in AFL.
Speaker 1:But what I would say is to anyone who gets confronted with tendons my basic operating premise at the moment is strength comes back relatively quickly. So you're in the gym, you're doing whatever. It comes back quick. The elastic component of the tendon and its interaction with particularly high speeds takes time. Don't rush. That would be my number one thing.
Speaker 1:We see too quickly and I think this back in that probably in the 90s, before MRIs really got off and going, we saw a lot of in AFL. There were a lot of guys would have a hamstring and they'd go out for three weeks. The great. Nathan Buckley was one of these. I met at Collingwood when he was still playing Hamstring for three weeks. Go back in maybe one or two weeks and he'd be out for another three. And that just kept going over and over.
Speaker 1:And you look at that and go, well, that's likely at that time was intramuscular, like it was a tendon injury. So you're getting the muscle strength, you're getting strength back. Things look good, you feel great, but it's not there. And I've got again to harp on the speed seeking I've seen this enough times to see where we lose. Like this is what JB Morin's data would predict that we lose the horizontal component on the ground, we lose the ability to pull to the ground.
Speaker 1:Ground contact goes up, that limb's under stress and that tendon just gets hammered. Now you tie into that. I think the work Ken Clark's done around triangular velocity is going to start to bleed more into this about how the tendon has to preload before it contacts the ground. But what I would say, without delving too much into that, is take your time. Strength will come back really quickly. It will look impressive in the gym. You'll do whatever test in the gym and everything will look, and even hops will look pretty cool, but you've got to take the time in running because that elastic, particularly when you're getting them to preload that tendon before it hits the ground. So we're getting really sharp ground contact just takes more time and I think we don't pay it enough respect.
Speaker 2:That's my two bobs worth. Yeah, to finish a couple of things. On that I agree totally what I've found. In a practical sense you can get people to 80% really quickly and you think, hang on a minute, two and a half weeks in, I'm going to get this guy or girl back in four weeks from a talent industry. What a great practitioner I am. But it's that last 20% speed which does take time. So enjoy that period, get some volume, get some resilience.
Speaker 2:Get some robustness in the athlete in that sort of three-week period that you have to keep them at about 80%, but keep them at about 80% whilst working on a whole bunch of stuff, because that's how long it takes to then move them up.
Speaker 1:I'm going to put a case study out soon. We did one of my men, mitchell White, up in Ranges in Scotland, who's just now made a move. I won't say where he's moved to yet but it's a big move for him. Young man's made a great, great progression. But he's one of my, these young guys who just push, push, push.
Speaker 1:When I offered some time with Speed Sig when I was up in the UK a year or so ago, mate, he was on the phone ringing but top, top practitioner, really good, sharp young man. Anyway, he and I did some work on just this. Player went to the sideline in soccer like stretched for the ball but got pushed in the back, so your classic proximal hamstring tendon. But we were in a position where, medically, around about halfway, about four or five weeks in, we could show, demonstrate with speed sig where he could go to six meters per second but then he'd lose horizontal force as he went past that the medical staff got MRI and said this is not healing, he can't run for another six weeks. Anyway, we were able to present data back to their team to say like no, we shouldn't be going full gas, but he can still go 60%, 70% and get his running speed in. Anyway, they all bought in. He was another four or five weeks, got back on the field and played and has not had an issue since.
Speaker 1:So I think that your exact words like that they're going to get back quick and they're going to feel great. But just respect that last bit I mean clearly, however you're doing it. But I mean that's obviously the speed-sick thing is, you want to quantify that because once they're on the field, gps is lying. It's not lying, that's wrong, but GPS is telling you what they're doing. They can find another way to find speed and that's where people adapt their mechanics and I will make a point on that.
Speaker 1:I've had the privilege of working the last couple of months in the Paralympic space and I will tell you categorically I have learned more in that last couple of months, working with amputees, working with other compromised athletes, about how they move and how the body adapts, how it finds another way to create speed. And that's when I bring that back to that tendon thing. Your body's going to find a way and you've just got to be. We've got to be as a profession, we've got to be better at identifying. They're now starting to use a different strategy. Let's just contain that. Like you said, get the volume. Let's work some 80%. Let's still do reps tempo work, but not let them off the leash. I think there's a lot more to be discussed there.
Speaker 2:Jason, let me finish off by saying one it's almost worth having three weeks off, two coaches and a coffee to have you this up and about. I'm loving the content that you're producing here, Jason, but it's not worth it because the crows are going to suffer as a result of us having three weeks off. But I'm loving your up and about-ness.
Speaker 2:Number two, and this is a story for another day, but my last month's reading has been all about right and left hemisphere. I've watched a couple of docos on it right and left hemisphere, brain thinking and how that relates to performance. I'm not saying and I don't even want to comment on it now because I don't quite understand it, but for the last month I've been delving into a British philosopher and professor who's produced a whole lot of stuff on this, called Dr Ian McGilchrist and how it relates to performance, and I'm getting some help with some people over in the UK. But what you've just described around amputees and the body finding a way is a classic case of us looking at GPS and you know left hemisphere work. We must know it and therefore we implement it versus the body will find a way. Just watch, just watch how magical this is and the body will find a way. Just watch, just watch, how magical this is and the body will find a way.
Speaker 2:So that's about all I want to say on it, because I'll say something that I don't quite get yet, but in about three months' time I'll be better Mate.
Speaker 1:we should go there later. Happy to.
Speaker 2:Next episode happy to, I've done some more reading by then. But we've. We've gone well over our 30 minute limit based on your caffeine consumption and yeah, yeah, your enthusiasm. So, oh, I love it mate.
Speaker 1:So our three weeks off. All I've done is amplify my coffee intake. So yeah, it's well and truly well and truly over the limit. So I'm gonna go have another one and then uh and head off. But, mate, great to see you again. It's been a while. Let's get back on the horse a bit more regularly and hopefully we haven't lost too many listeners along the way.
Speaker 2:Good to see you and we'll speak again soon, all right.
Speaker 1:See you folks, See you folks, Thank you.